sadomasochism. Abusive. Codependent. All of this might describe the confused bromance between basic corn-eating Tom Wambsgans and ATN’s leggy prince Greg Hersh in “Succession.”
But despite the threats and ritual humiliation, this proved to be the show’s most enduring and perhaps most loving relationship, ending on Sunday night. (Spoilers follow.) So endearing, in fact, that multiple fans re-cut the pair’s scoring scene. “You Belong With Me” by Taylor Swift.
As the son-in-law (Tom, played by Matthew Macfadyen) and nephew (Greg, played by Nicholas Braun) of billionaire Logan Roy (Brian Cox), these men are both insiders and outsiders of the Roy family. Influenced by power, but never quite. Its. Their double act provided many of the show’s brighter moments, if sadistic. The duo, who called themselves “bad brothers,” watched drama, often staying out of its reach.
Despite this, or perhaps because of it, the show and its creator Jesse Armstrong decided to install Tom as the puppet CEO of Waystar Royco and Greg as a squire, each with some sort of I prepared a happy ending. (Certain fan theories predicted this, such as linking Tom’s surname to that of early 20th-century baseball players, but Brown and McFadyen said they didn’t pay much attention to fan chatter.) .)
The morning after the final episode, McFadyen and Brown joined a video call, with Brown from Manhattan and McFadyen from London about the series, their friendship on and off screen, and how the show gave them a taste for fine watches. We discussed whether we gave Brown paused the call first to maximize Macfadyen’s on-screen presence.
“I just want to make his face bigger,” Brown said affectionately.
These are edited excerpts from the conversation.
Will this be a good outcome for Tom in his new role as puppet CEO? Did he win?
Matthew Macfadyen I never thought about winning. I guess that’s how you fall. the next day, [expletive]storm. it goes on.
Is this what he wanted?
Macfadyen It can also be argued that he wanted a happy marriage, or perhaps for Shiv’s sake. [Tom’s wife, played by Sarah Snook] To achieve that and get him second. He would have loved it too. I really don’t know what he wants, just like I don’t know what I want. He wants his greasy poles to shine, but I don’t know how ruthless he is.
Nicholas Brown Sometimes people ask, “What is Greg doing there?” What does he want? why does he keep hanging around? We weren’t playing such a big long game.
Will this be a good ending for Greg, who is permanently obsessed with Tom on a heavily cut paycheck?
Brown This is a great resume builder. Get big on LinkedIn. Get a headhunter involved to get a better salary elsewhere.
Do you think he should break up with Tom?
Brown For Greg, it’s always been on his mind. For example, “Do I need this?” ” I also don’t know if he intends to cut my salary. I think he can triple that. simply.
Macfadyen You will be responsible for the dismissal.
Brown Chief Human Resources Officer. As he walked down the hallway, every office said, “You’re fired.”
Why do you think Shiv is more on Tom’s side than his brothers Kendall and Roman?
Macfadyen Perhaps she didn’t choose Tom over her brother. Maybe she can’t stand her brother. It’s not an either/or. She looks at Kendall and she just thinks, “I can’t do that.” She doesn’t think she made a rational decision. And then there’s the beautiful stage rendition that Jesse put into the Tom and Shiv script in the car. He talks about two bombs being transported.
In that shot, they’re holding hands, but not quite, and she puts her hand over him. Was it also in the stage production?
Macfadyen I think it was. Tom holds out his hand. she puts her hands up. Tom and Shiv have been through a lot, but it felt so cold and strange that Tom’s side couldn’t come out victorious at all. They are going home, but no one knows.
Perhaps it had to be Tom and Greg all along. Did you pay attention to what fans send you?
Macfadyen It’s not that deep.
Brown Only Taylor Swift fancams. [To Macfadyen] I sent you yesterday. I think it’s really well done.
Was there any romance there? Do you have any Eros tips?
Macfadyen i don’t think so. The fun in all of that is what people project onto it. But we didn’t play like that. The acting, the energy, the chemistry and everything else with Nick was just amazing. There’s all sorts of Tom and Greg swirling around and it’ll get. But we’re just playing that scene.
Brown It’s just the joy of being private. These guys love to have secrets and secret conversations. There are moments when we want to smile at each other.
Macfadyen It’s part of being an outsider, and they’ve been from the beginning.
So in the powder room fight scene in the finale, you never did a kiss at the end?
Macfadyen No, it was really bad. Nick and I thought, ‘Oh, let’s do it. Let’s punch each other. It was true.
Brown When you bump into someone, you want to pull them. But when the camera gets that close, it can’t. I had to hit him head on. That’s the way you and I have worked together, you trust me and I trust you to do whatever you want. And finally it’s okay. There were also takes that bumped into each other more often.
Greg and Tom were both close to the Roy family, but just beyond. What were their roles on the show?
Macfadyen I’m sure there are clever answers in terms of dramatic narrative, like Shakespeare’s Fool, but that would detract from their appeal, because they’re more than just comic relief. But they’re not the cold, harsh, messed up Roy family – they haven’t suffered at the hands of Logan like their brothers. they have different energies.
Brown They didn’t grow up in this dynamic where Logan beat them, built them up, then crushed them again. Structurally, you want some contrast. Because otherwise it will just be the most serious one. Greg just wants something stupid. He’s a new suit, good shoes, and so on.
Macfadyen So the whole world of “inheritance” is absurd. The corridor of power is absurd. Greg and Tom are in that wide range. Kendall is very serious, and there’s something hilarious about his seriousness. We indulge in a farce. But it’s a mistake to think they don’t care. They care just as much as everyone else. We played everything like life and death.
You’ve developed friendships off-screen. Have you ever given yourself the nickname “bad brother”?
Macfadyen No, no, we are much more sophisticated than that.
Do you have a favorite Tom and Greg scene?
Macfadyen Too many. everyone is nice I loved the series of scenes in the panic room and then you trying to blackmail me. Often it’s small moments, small looks.
Brown many times we will be broken [into laughter] in the background.
Macfadyen We just ruin other people’s work. As a matter of fact, it’s really unprofessional.
Brown If you’ve ever seen the two of us looking up at the ceiling together or quickly facing the wall in the background, it’s probably because we’re heartbroken.
Macfadyen You and I have both walked away from a set feeling strangely embarrassed. Like we let everyone down and let ourselves down because something was so funny.
Shame can be healthy. Could your character be shamed? Have they ever felt bad about destroying democracy?
Macfadyen No, they would have blamed someone else.
Brown They have become desensitized, just like everyone else in this world. We’ve all become a little desensitized to thinking too deeply about things. For Tom and Greg, all that exists in the world is to keep working. Just do the following to keep working.
The show takes an ambiguous position on wealth and class. Did working on this piece give you a taste for watches, penthouses and custom his suits, or vice versa?
Macfadyen not much. A lot of the locations were these special places, and it’s strangely comforting, because you think you don’t want this.
Brown Once inside a few sets, the yacht can be as amazing as you think it is. And it’s kind of a fancy place. The yacht in particular was a little ugly inside, as were many of the hotel rooms, mansions and castles.
Nick, I’m glad you’re now a yacht critic. And Matthew, that watch you’re wearing is very nice.
Macfadyen Yes, I have always been interested in watches.
Then, can’t we blame “inheritance”?
Brown You probably can. I bought a Rolex for the first time because I learned a little about Rolex from a TV show. My character bought a Rolex Submariner. That got me going.
Macfadyen I was a very good watch concierge for you. I tried.
Why do you think viewers are so obsessed with shows that portray terrible privilege?
Macfadyen I never thought it was about privileges or money. That’s the least interesting part. it’s family. It is either love or lack of love and trust and power. Lack of love and support from the patriarch to the brothers drives everything.
Brown People say to me, ‘I am the Shiv in the family. “I’m Kendall. Our dad is Logan.” A family I always think of is this Korean family who owns a sandwich shop in the East Village. I went to buy sandwiches one night and the cashier said, oh. oh my god i love you Dad, he’s Logan. “His father was packing the freezer, but he didn’t look up. That’s a big deal. People love to see themselves on this show.
Finally, as someone who loves episodes of Senate hearings where Tom’s emails are read out, I have to ask. What’s the perfect tomlet recipe?
Macfadyen Eggs and shame.
